fickle friends come to blows as the dark side of happiness grows

Apart from early Primal Scream, my favourite band on Creation Records has always been Pacific. In early 2010 I contacted Dennis Wheatley through an email address I discovered relating to his Shrift project. I had been told by a couple of people (hello Dave Driscoll) that it took Dennis a while to get around to doing things, so sent off some interview questions expecting to hear back in a few weeks. As ever Dave Driscoll was right, and around three years later, I can now present my interview with the legendary Dennis Wheatley!! Thanks for the comprehensive answers, Dennis, I have kept the answers intact as love the stream of thought style. I think my blog now feels almost complete as an opportunity to post an interview with Pacific was one of the reasons why I started writing.

Stephen: How old were you when you first became interested in music? Who were your favourite artists in your formative years? What was the first instrument you learnt to play? Were you into Punk and New Wave, or were you too young?

Dennis: Music was always a massive part of my childhood.. Both my parents loved music (and still do) My dad was into jazz, big bands.. and lots of cheesy easy listening like burt kaemphert , James last etc etc.. My mum was the queen of pop music.. My nana also listened to lots too.. So music was always on.. Always being brought into the house. My first records were my parents old ones.. Lots of 7"s Beatles, elvis, beach boys. My dad was pretty active with teaching himself how to play the trombone and experimenting with recording using old reel to reel tape recorders.. He'd play around dubbing sounds on top of each other and put together dance compilations for parties etc.. These reel to reel recorders ended up being very influential with my love of the actual recording process. First instrument is hilarious when I think of it.. I'd always had a rather nasty acoustic guitar lying around in my bedroom .. but since it only had a couple of old rusty strings on it I decided that guitar playing probably wasn't for me. I was in truth more interested in all things electric.. Kraftwerk, la dusseldorf, even ultravox! and so I used to spend most Saturday mornings with headphones on in a music shop in Guildford that had lots of synthesisers.. I was fascinated by them and I eventually got a moog prodigy as a Christmas present when I was 14 or 15. It was a monophonic synth and I had no idea what I was doing with it.. It's a crazy thing to play by yourself so I just started recording nonsense into one tape recorder and playing along with it whilst recording into another.. Nonsense plus more nonsense equaled a barrel of nonsense but I loved getting lost in it. Music was definitely my language at that time.. I was pretty awkward and shy so it was a much easier way to communicate! (Even if it didn't make a lot of sense). I remember telling everyone at school that I was going to live in a recording studio when I got older.. I didn't really know what one was but it was quite an accurate prediction as it turned out.

Music wise I was always had a very eclectic taste but somehow back then it didn't seem to be allowed .. I was always a bit embarrassed to have the clash and chic side by side in my record collection.. I used to remove certain albums from the pile depending on who was looking. I went out dancing to funk and disco all the time ..absolutely loved dancing all night and also loved jumping around to something harder.. Nothing's changed really.

My first gig was pretty wonderful.. It was The specials, the selecter and a rather young Dexys midnight runners.. The hall was sweaty and full.. Dancing fighting screaming.. Amazing... I remember kevin Roland coming onto the stage pleading with the buzzing hall 'can you feel the soul?, can your feel the soul?!! ' and all the skinheads shouting 'fuck off you wanker" beautiful exchange.

S: Around what time did The Doris Days form? Were you in any bands previously? Did you ever get much interest from record companies? Apart from appearing on a compilation tape I know of (Uncle Arthur's Pop Parlour), were there any other tape / 7" releases? Were you part of any Brighton scene?

D: Can't remember exactly when Doris days formed but it must have been 87 ish.. It came out of a few different things.. I was on a course called 'expressive arts' (don't laugh) in Brighton.. It was a performing arts degree where you choose either music, dance or theatre to combine with working in the visual arts, film drawing photography painting etc.. I'd ended up there through knowing Jane fox from the Marine Girls.. Backtracking slightly here.. Everyone wrote to each other back then and Jane and I had a very healthy correspondence with each other around the time she was on the wonderful cassette label 'in phaze' which was run by a reggae loving crane driver in Ilford. (He used to write me letters from inside his crane cab) He recorded people like 'legendary pink dots' 'portion control' 'solid space' (who I played my moog prodidgy for) and the rather lovely 'marine girls' . his studio was in a shed and he had quite a good ear for recording I have to say. So.. Forward to Brighton.. I took a year off to run a club called 'the big twang' with a couple of friends.. Our ethos was to put 3 bands on every week for very little money and produce a small fanzine every week to hand out at the door.. It was a good thing while it lasted.. We also decorated the place with news print that everyone was encouraged to paint on and I used to show old holiday slides over the bands whilst they played. I irritated the sound man from the PA hire company so much with my constant requests to change the sound from lumpen old rock setting to jangly new indie pop that he handed over the mixing desk to me and I accidentally became a live sound man too. Highlight for me was the 'magical mystery twang' a mystery tour that took 2 coaches of people across the south coast to a pub in the middle of nowhere in Dorset to see the June brides, shop assistants, and the band from Yeovil who's name escapes me..

One day the June brides came to play at the club and asked me if I wanted to join them to do sound on some upcoming tours and I said yes.. This was a great time.. We toured all over the uk Germany holland and went to Ireland on a Smiths tour around the time of 'the queen is dead' album was being recorded.. Listening to 'double decker bus' for the first time at a soundcheck in an empty hall was quite a moment. Life was pretty interesting I was always getting on trains to go and see bands in different parts of the country... I was friends with bobby Gillespie when he was in Jesus and Mary chain and I'd go to some very strange gigs of theirs.. Preston is the one that sticks in my mind.. Hilarious .. There soundchecks always lasted longer than the gigs. Bobby was actually pretty influential on me getting the Doris days thing together.. We used to see each other a lot at various gigs.. Either June brides or shop assistants (who I also drove and did live sound for) he was always very enthusiastic and asking to hear the songs I was writing.. (By this time I was thrashing away on a guitar being very influenced by the people around me in Brighton) I'd had a band called 'one potato' which started life in aldershot with my old friend Stephen Harris (latterly aurbisons) and then developed into a core of me plus Jane fox (marine girls) and Olly sagar (one of the greatest singer songwriters noones ever heard of!) we did quite a few shows in Brighton.. Played with people like Virginia Astley... But that was always a live cabaret type thing and it faded somehow. I started to work with other people on my course who played cello, trumpet, piano and never really had the idea to play live with them.. I was more interested in the recording.. The layering. The songs were coming together and it seemed that maybe we should play live after all .. I was starting another club called 'the sky at night' and putting on wolfhounds, McCarthy so we played support to them.. It was pretty chaotic (there were 7 of us at that stage) I think we played one or two other gigs and maybe a house party but not much more.

S: I read in a magazine years ago that Pacific bought all their equipment with a housing benefit cheque. Was this true? Who else was in Pacific? Was it true that you auditioned for Alan McGhee in your front room? Did Pacific play many gigs? Did Alan Mcghee ask you to change the name of the band from The Doris Days to Pacific?

D: It's probably partly true! I was always trying to be resourceful! The big purchase was a Casio sampler (7 seconds worth of sampling for 1500 pounds which was a huge amount of money back then) plus an Atari computer to sequence stuff. Technically it was the Doris days that auditioned to alan.. It wasn't a front room.. It was my bedroom! It came about because a friend of mine 'Johnny dee' was interviewing alan for a magazine and thought it would be a good idea for me to come with him to take photos but more importantly to mention the Doris days project.. It was an excellent idea of his ..alan and I found a shared love of the pet shop boys 'always on my mind' and when he heard I had a computer (none of the creation bands at that time had a computer!) he wanted to hear what we were up to! He came round a few days later and we played about 6 songs to him. He was very direct.. He loved 2 or 3 of them.. He said.. Great lets record numbers 2, 4 and 6. There's a studio in London you can go to next week .. See you soon. That was our 'signing' to creation. There never was a contract.. Just arrangements for recording sessions and bookings for gigs eventually. We joined at the time he was preparing for the 'doing it for the kids' Thing.. That all day event in london became Pacific's first gig. Pacific was myself (writing singing guitaring, sequencing computer) vanessa norwood (my girlfriend at the time, singing) simon Forrest (cello) nick Wilson (trumpet) and Rachel norwood ( Vanessa's younger sister, more guitar) We didn't play many gigs .. We played the 'doing it for the kids' all day thing which was pretty special.. My bloody valentine, primal scream, house of love, felt, momus and others I can't remember.. We also did a small tour with house of love and some things like a rough trade party which was hilarious because it was in the first acid house summer of love and we were the polar opposite of what the audience wanted.. I had no idea why they were all wearing fluorescent clothes and moving their arms In such an exaggerated fashion.. We also played with jonathan richman and probably some other things I can't remember.

S: What are your feelings looking back at the Pacific times. Why did the band split? Do you feel you achieved everything you set out to do with Pacific? Have you got any Alan McGhee / Creation Records anecdotes? What were Creation Records like to deal with?

D: The Creation Records time was a wonderful time.. I've only got good things to say about alan .. He was very entertaining to be around.. I spent a lot of time with him just talking and record shopping.. He was constantly trying to get me to try E and I was constantly refusing.. I have memories of funny parties at his house where it was pretty debauched but he was still somehow worried about damaging his living room table because it might jeopardise his deposit. I remember strange evenings out eating curries with Lawrence from felt who wouldnt eat green food and would write letters to alan as if he was his dad.. Asking him to pay dentist bills etc.. It was really like a big slightly dysfunctional family.. I became known as the one who knew about technology so I'd have conversations with kevin shields about drum machines in the corridor of the office.. and Andrew Innes from the primals would call about recording setups. Everyone loved and hated creation but alan was such a great character and he really didn't take it all too seriously.. What I most loved about him was his honesty.. If he liked it he said so and if he didn't he said so.. Not many people in the music business know what they think because they're so weak and in need of others approval.. Alan was a million miles away from that. Many years later Vanessa bumped into him near his office (now in swanky primrose hill rather than the wild east of hackney) he was in a complete different world now.. Post oasis etc etc.. But he was just as curious about what I was up to and when he hard I was working with billy Mackenzie he asked me in to listen the following day.. He was the same man I'd talked to almost 10 years previous and after hearing the demos he said .. They're really great but not for me.. Let me get you a meeting with blah blah at island records. ( which he followed through and did) Our relationship was always good.. He asked me if I'd work with primal scream when they were trying to find their way just before finding it spectacularly with screamadellica.. I went to a number of rehearsals.. Loved the idea of it.. 't-Rex meets new order' but never quite had the vision to want to engage with it.. I've wondered what could have happened if I'd been slightly more open at the time but the whole loaded thing was such a happy accident for all concerned.. The only reason I left creation was because of an offer from Capitol records. Alan had Ben trying to get me a publishing deal with EMI to give me some income but nothing had worked out.. The a+r left just before we could sign. When I told him about the Capitol offer he was excited for me and said 'go.. Get the money and when it all fucks up you can come back here!' At the time I was thinking that I needed to work in bigger and better studios with bigger and better producers.. I was chasing the wrong thing but needed to do it to realise.. What I should have done was trusted my own vision in more low-tech studios .. Something I would eventually do... But hey.. Hindsight is so wonderful.

S: What are your thoughts on the current indie music scene, or the music scene in general? How have things changed? What are you listening to these days? I know you are in Shrift - Is this an on-going project? Are you involved in any other musical projects? Also, what else do you like to do outside of music?

D: I've always loved new music.. I'm sure I always will.. I love the thrill of the new mixed with the comfort of the old. I'm not sure I've got any useful opinions about scenes of any kinds.. If I go out to gigs these days I crave amazing performances.. Something that makes the hairs stand on end. One person I'm completely addicted to seeing is glen Hansard ( frames, swell season etc) his records are ok but seeing him live is another dimension. I travel all over to see him .. The thing I most like doing is dancing so I try to do as much of that as possible.. Love doing parties at my studio and I travel a lot to film festivals who do well in keeping me topped up in that respect. Shrift was a lovely project with the singer nina Miranda .. It was a time of experimenting for both of us..she'd been working in the band smoke city (underwater love) and wanted to try something less structured.. We were both pretty vulnerable looking back.. Both wanting to escape from London somehow and we did it through our imaginary musical place.. Warm and sensual.. Romantic and free. I still really like some of the songs we wrote together and particularly like the short film for lost in a moment. Shrift isn't a live project no.

The music I do now is mostly for films.. But I was going to do a collaboration last year with the marvellous Courtney tidwell.. I'd still like to make that happen but cant imagine how or when at the moment. I worked on a feature a few years ago called 'the Bengali detective' I wrote some original music and did something called sound design and final mix for it too. Sound design for me is the orchestration of all audio elements within a film whether it be the location sound, extra fx, dialogue, music or whatever.. finding the audio voice for the film's soundtrack. . I've come to see all sounds as potential music and sound design is my primary role now. I've been lucky to be involved in some great projects which have let me travel the world to film festivals that are screening them (I'm writing this whilst flying above Newfoundland enroute to Sundance film festival) I'Ve got some amazing projects lined up for this year which will see me recording sounds and writing music in places like Nepal and india as well as Latin America and the US. Hopefully they'll result in some great films too. I've come to see all sounds as potential music.

Thanks again for the great interview, Dennis. Hope you can get the photos and video footage of the Doing It For The Kids concert sorted out!